Cupholder Turbo Install Writeup

[Cupholder Zealot]

Here is the conglomerated writeup for my turbo install.

Current Progress: The car runs perfectly. The installed spring in the Tial wastegate gave about 5.5 pounds of boost, which was a good initial number for learning the ins and out of the basic turbo tuning. I have since installed an 8.7 PSI spring, and it seems as though with the cold weather we are having, the tune is still safe.

Nevertheless, I have a water/meth kit, and an air-to-water intercooler setup on the way.

The water/meth kit is cheap insurance ($250), and the intercooler setup is pieced together with a prefabbed intercooler off Ebay ($150), a replacement Mustang intercooler pump ($60), and I found a nifty radiator off an old Suzuki moto that measures 17x9.5, which should just fit at the bottom the well, in front of the radiator. I plan to lay it slanting upward, so that the fan will blow the air down through it, so that the engine radiator isn't in the hot air flow of the intercooler's heat exchanger. That update should be coming in the next couple weeks.

Here is that writeup, in full form:

The final trip in the car...had some unexpected snowfall in an otherwise dry Tahoe.




The ramp setup of 6 pier blocks and 2x8x10'. stacked double on each side. Plenty of room underneath. Driving it up the ramp backwards was a challenge.




The car up...and everything safe:




3 pictures of the very dirty engine bay right as work got underway. I have deleted the AC.







After lifting most things off the sheetmetal, I did a pressure wash clean right in the garage....spent more time cleaning up the garage than the car!! Also I did a quick and dirty on the valve cover, and also a basic job on the heat shielding, to see if it is something that I like. I grew up restoring 60's cars....very clean engine bays are what I like to see. The heat shielding was cheap, 40" x11' for about 60 shipped....worth the experiment. The specs say it's heat resistant, but not flame proof, so bring it on!









Finally, a picture of what you get, minus the manifold that is curing in the oven as I type, for what you pay for the turbo kit





Well progress was halted finding some tools. For anyone who is going to buy the kit, I would pre-order the 1/2 npt tap, the 45/64 drill bit for it, and a proper sized drill to run it. I was able to find these locally in the bay area after hours of searching and driving, but would have simply ordered them when I ordered the kit to reduce the frustration.

Here w have pictures of the gauge setup in the cabin...a turbo gauge, and then an AFR gauge. I have an LC-1 on the way, which is about the smartest $200 I ever spent in service of turbo tuning. I would suggest anyone doing a turbo to add this to the cost of the kit.




Here we have the turbo and manifold all ready to install....I bench tested it...and now its permanently glowing?!?



Finally in a fit of frustration last night, I decided to go ahead and take a shortcut....but the motor wouldn't start. Any ideas, Todd?




Today, the turbo will get installed on the car, the turbo exhaust will go in, and oil lines finalized. Should be ready to test start today, though I will probably wait to get the AFR setup in, which is due to arrive tomorrow.


It was wired directly to the battery

Well I have run into problems. I managed to break the oil pan baffle with a poorly placed oil return hole. I have located an oil pan locally...but what a bummer!

This came on the heels of discovering a broken motor mount! But found that today locally and replaced it.

Progress: Turbo is in, mostly plumbed, exhaust is in, just need to fix/replace the pan, hook up the AFR and FMU, and a few more details!




Well the oil pan fix was pretty straightforward. The baffle mounts in a few places on the inside of the oil pan, and the crack that resulted from the plumbing work was pretty minor. It was safety wired together, and I don't anticipate any problems. Will replace it whenever the motor comes out.

Here is the final engine bay picture:




The heat shielding has held up well, and everything looks clean and nice.

The initial start up of the motor was flawless...it started right up and idled, and its been running smoothly ever since. Very impressed!!

[ChiTownTy]

following, I like what im seeing

[Nebraska_e28]

I like the build, I do not like the concrete blocks. I've only used them in a pinch & have always heard bad things about them for safety.

[Rich Euro M5]

I like the build, I do not like the concrete blocks. I've only used them in a pinch & have always heard bad things about them for safety.

Those are cast concrete pier blocks and will hold the weight.

[Cupholder Zealot]

I did have the fear of a block spontaneously crumbling...but figured that if that happened, the other 5 would keep the car high enough that if I was under there, I wouldn't get crushed.

The other fear was an earthquake...we've been getting those lately!

[unt0uchable]

Look's really nice. Where did you get the kit from? Do you plan to put down any numbers when it's all said and done?

[Cupholder Zealot]

Its a TCD Stage 1 kit, except with a higher boost spring.

I am piecing together an air to water intercooler, and a water/meth injection kit on the way...which I may decide not to use afterall.

Numbers? As in dyno? Well I'm pretty much laid off right now, and to tell you the truth, hundreds of dollars to dyno my car would be at the bottom of the list of many other unfinished projects. Its just a daily driver thats fun, I've never been a competitive one, expect racing motorcycle enduro.

[unt0uchable]

Nice looking kit. At almost $4000 that's a pretty penny but definitely looks well worth it. Wish I had that sort of $$ to drop into my 5er.

[turbodan]

I'd recommend staying away from water/meth injection. You can make all the power you need without it. It can also help mask other problems with fueling and ignition advance. And of course, even with safegaurds in place, people blow motors all the time when the tank runs dry or one thing or another fails.

[Cupholder Zealot]

I'm starting to think the same. Put in the intercooler, and stick with 9 psi.

[Shadow]

Just don't turn it up or you'll get the taste of power that 91 alone can not make

[Lurker27]

I'd recommend staying away from water/meth injection. You can make all the power you need without it. It can also help mask other problems with fueling and ignition advance. And of course, even with safegaurds in place, people blow motors all the time when the tank runs dry or one thing or another fails.

This is silly and easily averted with megasquirt. The fearmongering around meth is honestly ridiculous, it's like telling someone not to go turbo because they might blwo their wastegate diaphragm and overboost the motor. You'll put on your favorite cardigan and paternally, pedagogically explain to them that megasquirt has overboost protection, and that they shouldn't be scared. Just do the following:

1. Megasquirt turns on pump using a JSx output and a set of conditionals (Boost pressure, most likely).

2. Pump turns on, if the tank is full and there are no clogs in the line (use a damn filter), meth begins flowing @ pressure.

3. Using an easily available inline pressure sensor that coolingmist sells for $60 and others for less, acquire a pressure signal directly from the flowing methanol line. Use this signal to activate your 2nd table for boost targets, ignition advance, and fueling. If you're really concerned, turn it on a little early or condition this signal with a simple RC circuit or a 555 timer. You can also enable/disable the entire system with one switch to prevent the pump from ever turning on, which keeps you locked to your low boost map

There you have it - built in failsafe methanol injection with high/low boost tables. Even if you ran out while spraying, your motor would be fine (residual pressure in the methanol line would continue after the pressure switch had already turned off, since it can be set at 150psi. This should provide enough hysteresis to both the starting and stopped actuation points to ensure the transition is smooth. Given than most meth pumps are diaphragm type units, there is almost no delay in actuation anyway, but this represents a true closed loop system, and is far safer than anything else I've seen anyone run.

Kind of a rant and I should probably make a thread, but you could run 15psi safely in this fashion, and trust me, the M30 is way better in the mid-teens.

[turbodan]

You can run up and over 20 psi on just fuel and air. Thats what I'm saying. Why bother installing all that crap? I know at least one motor that was killed due to tuning with meth injection, despite numerous safegaurds. Theres really no point. If you are running such an aggressive tune that you rely on the water/meth you're one failure away from blown ring lands and a trashed motor.

I've never needed it on an 8.5:1 M20 up to 1.4 bar. It should be even easier with the 8:1 M30. I've seen it done.

[Lurker27]

I'm not going to argue that improper meth setups are a ticking time bomb, and going for too much advance/too lean will still result in detonation. I just think that in M30s, which have KNOWN cooling problems in cylinders 3/4 (just ask Paul Burke), and LOVE to run high advance (see: Good and Tight's 622rwtq E85 dyno @ 21psi), alcohol injection, done PROPERLY, makes all the sense in the world, particularly when retaining stock pistons.

My total cost for the outline meth injection system is <$200 and it will greatly ease my mind to have it set up in that fashion. Can you ever have octane too high, and MAT too low?

[turbodan]

If you install the system to take advantage of additional ignition advance you are putting the motor on the line, thats all I'm saying. If you're installing it for an additional margin of safety theres no fault there as long as the system is implemented and tuned correctly. It can actually induce detonation if you're injecting more liquid than can be atomized, same as running excessively rich AFRs.

In any case its more junk in the engine compartment and another consumable fluid to keep topped off, which is my primary reasoning against it. I don't mind putting gas in the tank, but anything more than that just isn't going to happen.

[mooseheadm5]

In that case, have an E85 tune and a regular fuel tune, but you'd need a fuel sensor. Only one tank to fill.

[turbodan]

If you want to run it down to damn near empty that could work. Risky business though.

[mooseheadm5]

If you want to run it down to damn near empty that could work. Risky business though.

http://www.megamanual.com/flexfuel.htm

Apparently, the flex fuel sensor can determine the amount of ethanol in the mix, which is cool. That would prevent you having to know exactly how much is there. I still wouldn't tune to the ragged edge of what the E85 could run in case the FFS is improperly calibrated.

[Lurker27]

Dan, I respect your choices regarding fueling (and must admit my somewhat incendiary post was rather intentional in case anyone could poke a hole in the logic of such a system). I just think that given the M30's relatively poor combustion chamber design (compared to 24v), there's a lot of benefit to boosting the octane and pumping the timing up.

That flexfuel setup is neat - never looked into it much.

[turbodan]

12v combustion chambers are inherently limited compared to the 24v motors, but that doesn't mean you can't make power. I almost swapped in an M52 but at the time I was making just shy of 400rwhp with the 2.7l M20. Its easy to give up on the old two valve motors but that doesn't mean they won't work. You just need a big turbine and a reasonably efficient manifold. A turbo cam helps too depending on how aggressive your current cam is. The B34 cam seems to be relatively good.

[Shadow]

I can run the boost up to 18psi on 91, but then it's a complete
turd because the retard I have to put in is.... retarded.

Feels like 10psi with the proper timing. More octane is needed
either meth or race gas.

Or just get a better engine.

[Lurker27]

That's because you can't get the timing to LPP (or MBT) with the combustion chamber design. With better octane (meth), you can.

http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue54/ ... asics.html

Shadow, I have a similar setup to you, but I'm on 14psi with a custom cam and fairly aggressive timing in my E30. It spins second at will and 3rd is dicey with a 2.93 and 225 star specs. It's more like 16psi on overboost (shifts are a touch rich and it spools so hard after shifts).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgQ-DQbw ... ature=plcp


My block is o-ringed so I don't mind pushing it, but I plan on going to 18 or 19 psi as soon as my meth setup is in.
My clutch probably won't hold that in the midrange, but I plan on making over 500rwtq until my HX40 runs out of blow, which should be about the same time as my 255 walbro. Once I get this sorted, super40 compressor wheel, bigger injectors, and an inline 044 fuel pump and I can knock on 700rwhp's door. We'll see how that goes with stock B35 pistons and the lightweight block.

[turbodan]

I can run the boost up to 18psi on 91, but then it's a complete
turd because the retard I have to put in is.... retarded.

Feels like 10psi with the proper timing. More octane is needed
either meth or race gas.

Or just get a better engine.

I'm sorry to hear that. I don't know how I'm running 1.4 bar on 91 octane. The car is definitely not slower than it is on .8.

[tsmall07]

No head studs?

[Cupholder Zealot]

I'm gonna crash this party....

[Nanajoth]

So flacid.