Operation: Parking Lot Hartge: Update 9/21/22, Back in the saddle

[leadphut]

Congrats on the find. Subscribed.

[gwade]

Awesome find, congratulations!

I have a complete upper H5S head, intake, AFM, DMW, dist, and harness for sale here: http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=11 ... rtge+parts and a matching M90 L-block too.

Here is a list of all the p/n's for an H5S, Best of luck!!!

Hartge 3.5 liter L-Jet engine conversion – P/N 11 31 0500
M90 L-Block, 9.34 bore x 84mm stroke, 10:1 compression
Hartge ported & polished BMW 3.5 head & port matched 2.8 intake manifold
+1mm intake valves, +2mm exhaust valves
Hartge .292 degree camshaft
Hartge valve cover
Hartge AFM (M535i) Bosch 0 280 203 002
Hartge ECU (M535i) Bosch 0 261 200 061
Hartge distributor (M535i) Bosch 0 237 302 008
Auxiliary oil cooler
Rising rate fuel regulator
Hartge header front & rear – P/N 18 31 0562 & 0563,

Getrag 262 close ratio sport transmission “Dogleg”
Differential 3:07 ratio
Hartge front brakes four piston 282mm (M5) – P/N 34 31 0100
Hartge stabilizer bars – kit P/N 31 31 0535
20mm front – P/N 31 31 0531
15mm rear – P/N 33 31 0532
Hartge front strut brace – P/N 31 31 0555
BMW rear strut brace – P/N 71 60 1 126 613 BOE
Hartge suspension – kit P/N 31 31 0500
Hartge/Bilstein front struts - P/N 31 31 0501
Hartge front springs – P/N 31 31 0502
Hartge/Bilstein rear shocks – P/N 33 31 0503
Hartge rear springs – P/N 33 31 0532
Negative camber front strut mounts – P/N 31 22 0200
Hartge wheels – (OZ) aluminum staggered
Fronts 7.5”x16” ET13 – P/N 36 31 0755
Rears 8.5”x16” ET25 – P/N 36 31 0855
Tires
Front – 225/50 16
Rear – 245/45 16
Hartge spoilers
Front spoiler – P/N 51 31 0500
Rear Spoiler – P/N 51 31 0600
Hartge mono wiper – P/N 61 31 0505
Hartge body decals anthracite – P/N 51 22 0920
Hartge steering wheel (Momo) – P/N 32 22 0400
Hartge shift knob – P/N 99 49 0140
Hartge speedometer 280kph – P/N 62 31 0010
Hartge instrument cluster - P/N 62 22 0100

[landspeed]

That is a much appreciated list gwade. I have been looking at you head and block for sale, unfortunately I don't have that kind of money right now. Hopefully I can find the right parts when I do, but I might just build a Hartge "spec" motor using newer technology.

[Coldswede]

Awesome find, congratulations!

I have a complete upper H5S head, intake, AFM, DMW, dist, and harness for sale here: http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=11 ... rtge+parts and a matching M90 L-block too.

Here is a list of all the p/n's for an H5S, Best of luck!!! ....

Slight highjack maybe but: Gwade are you saying you can order those part numbers from Hartge (Or someplace)? Or was this just info for Landspeed to check on his existing parts?

[wkohler]

I don't want to question anything but I don't see how the H5s would run a Motronic ECU and an L-Jet AFM and distributor.

[gwade]

All those parts are NLA. The p/n's are taken from Hartge literature for reference.

I cut & pasted the specs from my own project and see that I should have deleted the 533i flywheel, Quaife differential, and 540i rear brakes. I also can't confirm Hartge used the 210 "big case" differential but definitely used 3.07 gears to the dogleg.

Sorry for any misinformation.

[landspeed]

I don't want to question anything but I don't see how the H5s would run a Motronic ECU and an L-Jet AFM and distributor.

Maybe a production split? Do the late cars run Motronic?

[wkohler]

Every 528i right up until 11/87 was L-Jet and as far as I know, that's what they built all of their cars from, so I don't know.

None of the 528s came with big case diffs either, but before 9/84, there wasn't a rear cover that fit E24/E28, so they wouldn't have come with one.

[landspeed]

Unless I'm mistaken, I think mine has a big case diff, looks larger than the diff in my IS, has a weird rear mount too.

[Jelmer538i]

Count the bolts of the side bearing carrier:

6 bolts = 188 diff



8 bolts = 210 diff

[wkohler]

Drain plug on the side is a giveaway, too.

[landspeed]

Damn! Mine is a medium case.

[wkohler]

Should be as it's an '84.

[landspeed]

Now I need to scrape the grease off the tag and see what it is.

[TheE28Ranch]

That is a much appreciated list gwade. I have been looking at you head and block for sale, unfortunately I don't have that kind of money right now. Hopefully I can find the right parts when I do, but I might just build a Hartge "spec" motor using newer technology.

Actually, the head Greg has for sale used to be in my '83 Hartge. If anyone is interested in buying it, I'd suggest looking at the head thickness to see if it is still within spec tolerances. I recall it just being under, as it was blocked a few times, believed by a prior owner and prior to a 3.8 engine build I had done that didn't take (and maybe again after?). But it has been years. Either way, I then decided to go another direction myself as you can get more performance out of a newer technology engine. Hartge engines from '83/'84 are peppy but antiquated. And by the time you buy a green block, the $3,600 head package, headers (which you have already, right?) and get it built....well, come to your own math. I sold all that stuff for a reason. And all for about $1000 or so between what went to Gwade through TCD and what I hooked Gwade up with to complete the package he now has, after he sought me out for what he wanted in terms of Hartge. I took good care of him, and also gave him a stack of spec sheets and other information. I look forward to seeing what his hartge tribute car ends up looking like. But back on topic, I really like to watch your progress here, Landspeed.

[landspeed]

Thanks for the info Trey. I'm not sure if I want to make the motor 100% correct in favor of more modern tech. I'm thinking maybe a b35 built to Hartge specs with a maf. I will post a progress update tonight.

[gwade]

Trey, your post smells. I don't appreciate you plopping all over a perfectly straight and re-worked Hartge H5S upper motor available for sale. Dissuading a fellow H5S owner from a proper restoration. Your costs date back seven years and your choices to gut your own rare car are just that. I even gave you first offer at a lower price in an attempt to reunite the motor to its momma. What gives?

email gwade9@yahoo.com or
call 310 890 6797

[wkohler]

If I had an H5s that didn't have the original motor, I'd do what I could to get the right stuff. Sure there are better options by now, but that's just how I am I guess.

[landspeed]

If I had an H5s that didn't have the original motor, I'd do what I could to get the right stuff. Sure there are better options by now, but that's just how I am I guess.

I definitely hear what you're saying, I just don't have that kind of money right now, I have a baby on the way. My wife would slaughter me if I dipped into savings for car parts. I would love to buy Greg's top end setup and make a complete car, I just doubt I could find the parts I need when my finances stabilize. Plus, I still need proper wheels and an airdam.

Mind holding on the those parts for a year, Greg?

J/k

[TheE28Ranch]

Well

[wkohler]

I guess I didn't get my point across. I was just saying that option one is to build the correct car. Barring that, do whatever but I'd keep the correct parts with the car if at all possible. Fortunately, Ian has the lions share of the stuff and who knows what he's got in that m30 until he opens it up.

Definitely true what you say about the motors. Your '83, Ian's, Adrian's all had issues and I'm sure there were others.

[Kyle in NO]

[TheE28Ranch]

Well

The hell what did I do? I lost my response. Wasted like 20 minutes of writing.

I spoke with Greg on the phone for a bit. We had a pleasant conversation. Like I said, I look forward to his build. We also discussed the history of the head. If the head is reasonably slimmer than ideal, it seems any issue would go away with the pistons one would have to have made for a build anyway. A simple verification would confirm what dimensions are, and Greg is ok with that, obviously.

I guess I didn't get my point across. I was just saying that option one is to build the correct car. Barring that, do whatever but I'd keep the correct parts with the car if at all possible. Fortunately, Ian has the lions share of the stuff and who knows what he's got in that m30 until he opens it up.

Definitely true what you say about the motors. Your '83, Ian's, Adrian's all had issues and I'm sure there were others.

True, Ian (glad I know his name now) doesn't know exactly what's in there yet, does he? I am living vicariously over here, and enjoying it.

Yeah, I was stupid for selling those parts in the first place. I'm keeping an eye peeled for a time machine, even if a full fresh engine build would be lotsa money anyway.

[landspeed]

Are you guy's referring to a different Ian or me? I'm getting confused.

[TheE28Ranch]

Are you guy's referring to a different Ian or me? I'm getting confused.

You, I am anyway, pretty sure Chris means you, too. Kinda weird being talked about in third person in your own thread, huh? It was getting weird calling you Landspeed over and over.

[landspeed]

Just checking. Gonna try to dig into the motor this weekend, sounds like no compression when cranking.

[landspeed]

The Por-15 process takes a bit longer than I thought, well, better to do it right.

Got some parts in. They still make the plug, but its plastic now. Oh well.

After 3 coats on the metal.


After this coat dries, gonna replace the sound deadener that I cut out, then 2 more coats over the whole area.

[landspeed]

Finally got the clean carpet back in and new pedals and pads installed.

It's hard to tell but the carpet is faded on the tunnel.

I also got into the motor a bit and have good and bad news. I found zero compression on the front 3 cylinders, so I didn't check the rest. I did pull the intake and found that the 2.8 intake is ported(possible Hartge Part?) as well as well ported intake ports and larger looking valves. Gonna be a bitch to pull this head with those headers though.

[wkohler]

Hartge used the 2.5/2.8 intakes and opened them up. Have you found the Hartge stamp on the left side of the head up behind the t-stat? I know you said it probably has a different motor in it, but...

[landspeed]

Hartge used the 2.5/2.8 intakes and opened them up.

Right, that's what I'm curious about. The intake has a mild port, but the head is heavily ported making me think the intake only is Hartge. The block is a 3.5 non L block and I can see a bit of rust in the cylinders through an open valve.