Manifold

[Nelsson]

Hello guys!

My plan was to make a manifold like this one ive seen here on this board, that Brad made.. http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=38 ... c&&start=0

But mine is looking like this http://m.ebay.com/itm/171565748741. Can anyone explain to me why i got 2 bolt flanges indstead of the triangel 3 bolt flanges?

I'm just afraid if im making the adaptor with the 2bolt flange manifold, that the turbo is too heavy, or it maybe it will leak gasses. Any thoughts on this?

[George]

The B35 manifolds use the 2 bolt cup style flange. The B34 uses the 3 bolt trianlge flange. Years ago I built a twin scroll adapter for the b34 manifolds. I think I paid like $50-$75 to have the b34 manifolds ported by a machine shop to match the inner diameter of the 1.5" Schd10 pipe. It was a while ago but it wasn't terribly expensive. I think I also had a local machinist cut two triangle flanges for me. I wouldn't trust the b35 style of mating flange for holding the turbo without significant turbocharger bracing.











This is taken from the B35 swap illustrating the differences between the two manifolds:



With a little bit of metal work you can eliminate the differences in inner diameter. The B34 3 bolt style can also use a gasket which would help with sealing especially with a heavy turbo load causing everything to shift during expansion and contraction.

[stefankj]

not mine, but 607hp capable with this adapter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmGMw-0sYgg

[Nebraska_e28]

The B35 manifolds use the 2 bolt cup style flange. The B34 uses the 3 bolt trianlge flange. Years ago I built a twin scroll adapter for the b34 manifolds. I think I paid like $50-$75 to have the b34 manifolds ported by a machine shop to match the inner diameter of the 1.5" Schd10 pipe. It was a while ago but it wasn't terribly expensive. I think I also had a local machinist cut two triangle flanges for me. I wouldn't trust the b35 style of mating flange for holding the turbo without significant turbocharger bracing.

Very interesting. Can you comment on how this setup performed compared to a log mani or even divided (or non-divided) tube mani? I always wondered why 666fab produced an adapter of this style for the m20 & not the m30.

[Nelsson]

not mine, but 607hp capable with this adapter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmGMw-0sYgg

Looks crazy, do you got more Info on that build?

[George]

Very interesting. Can you comment on how this setup performed compared to a log mani or even divided (or non-divided) tube mani? I always wondered why 666fab produced an adapter of this style for the m20 & not the m30.

I'll try not to derail this discussion too much...

I cannot comment on how it performed. Like a lot of fabrication projects, I never got in on a running car. I gave the manifolds and adapter to Paul when he bought my e34 last July. It still needed a little bit of welding but maybe someday he'll put it to use.

All things being equal (engine, tune, equivalent turbine A/R...), a divided, twin scroll set-up will provide earlier spool. The question is how much earlier and sadly I never got to find out. If you look at that top picture that was a COMP turbo GT4094 equivalent. I think that turbo was rated for something like 800+HP. Totally unnecessary but it would have been fun. I think for most builds a log manifold works just fine. A best guess would be that 500whp (on pump gas) is about the limit of what most logs will produce with the right sized turbo(TCD, Cartech, 745i,...). I would think that EGT and pre-turbine manifold pressure will start to creep up too high due to the style of runner flow. There is quite a bit of energy to disperse.

I would think that 666 made adapters for the M20 and not the M30 partly because of demand but also because of the b34/b35 manifold differences as illustrated previously. There are lot more dudes trying to turbo e30s than e28's/e24s/e23s...

not mine, but 607hp capable with this adapter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmGMw-0sYgg

My only fear with this set-up would be the tubing cracking without the turbo being supported by additional bracing. Thats a lot of tubing/piping supporting an HX50. Also, wheres the wastegate?


I found a couple of pictures of the porting on the b34 manifolds:

[Nelsson]

Very interesting. Can you comment on how this setup performed compared to a log mani or even divided (or non-divided) tube mani? I always wondered why 666fab produced an adapter of this style for the m20 & not the m30.

I'll try not to derail this discussion too much...

I cannot comment on how it performed. Like a lot of fabrication projects, I never got in on a running car. I gave the manifolds and adapter to Paul when he bought my e34 last July. It still needed a little bit of welding but maybe someday he'll put it to use.

All things being equal (engine, tune, equivalent turbine A/R...), a divided, twin scroll set-up will provide earlier spool. The question is how much earlier and sadly I never got to find out. If you look at that top picture that was a COMP turbo GT4094 equivalent. I think that turbo was rated for something like 800+HP. Totally unnecessary but it would have been fun. I think for most builds a log manifold works just fine. A best guess would be that 500whp (on pump gas) is about the limit of what most logs will produce with the right sized turbo(TCD, Cartech, 745i,...). I would think that EGT and pre-turbine manifold pressure will start to creep up too high due to the style of runner flow. There is quite a bit of energy to disperse.

I would think that 666 made adapters for the M20 and not the M30 partly because of demand but also because of the b34/b35 manifold differences as illustrated previously. There are lot more dudes trying to turbo e30s than e28's/e24s/e23s...

not mine, but 607hp capable with this adapter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmGMw-0sYgg

My only fear with this set-up would be the tubing cracking without the turbo being supported by additional bracing. Thats a lot of tubing/piping supporting an HX50. Also, wheres the wastegate?


I found a couple of pictures of the porting on the b34 manifolds:

I think im gonna go with the b35 manifold as i already have them, and then fabricate some kind of support for the turbo/turbo flange.. And then add a pipe for the wastegate.
Screamer pipe FTW

[Nelsson]

I just think it's going to be too much work and $$ to get a b34 mani, and then get it ported, instead of just use what i have

[George]

I would try to get about 1-2 inches of the B35 downpipe/midpipe. The b35 flanges seal with a flared cup much like AN/JIC fittings. I never tried flaring sch 10/40 pipes to the same angle (you'd have to use a lot of pressure and a lot of heat or both) but I'd imagine that trying to replicate the flare with basic fabrication tools would prove difficult to seal. A cleaned section of the stock midpipe will weld fairly easy to 304SS.

[Nelsson]

I would try to get about 1-2 inches of the B35 downpipe/midpipe. The b35 flanges seal with a flared cup much like AN/JIC fittings. I never tried flaring sch 10/40 pipes to the same angle (you'd have to use a lot of pressure and a lot of heat or both) but I'd imagine that trying to replicate the flare with basic fabrication tools would prove difficult to seal. A cleaned section of the stock midpipe will weld fairly easy to 304SS.

I just aint got the b35 downpipe or flanges. I was thinking of get a machineist to make new flanges/flares on the manifold and making a cup that will fit 100% with the new flange he made on the manifold

[George]

I would try to get about 1-2 inches of the B35 downpipe/midpipe. The b35 flanges seal with a flared cup much like AN/JIC fittings. I never tried flaring sch 10/40 pipes to the same angle (you'd have to use a lot of pressure and a lot of heat or both) but I'd imagine that trying to replicate the flare with basic fabrication tools would prove difficult to seal. A cleaned section of the stock midpipe will weld fairly easy to 304SS.

I just aint got the b35 downpipe or flanges. I was thinking of get a machineist to make new flanges/flares on the manifold and making a cup that will fit 100% with the new flange he made on the manifold

Be sure to post some pictures of the results. I'm interested to see how it turns out.

[Nelsson]

My plans is to make a build thread on all of the work i do to the engine

[Shadow]

I was sorta thinking the same but it doesn't matter. two bolts or three the turbo isn't close to heavy enough to snap bolts.
That flipped manifolds had to have a crazy angle so I didn't like that for some reason
so it was done this way instead. Don't know if it's better or worst then a short manifold but the holes are huge.

[TotiTurbo]

I made something similar for a budget build, but haven't run it yet

Twin scroll with a single 50mm wastegate and a seperated pipe right up to the wastegate valve

Only have this picture of it tacked together:

[jrcanes55]

Here is the manifold I put together this weekend. I think I want to re-do it in stainless so I can make it look prettier and save some weight. But it's working well. I haven't really beat on the car yet as I'm waiting on my intercooler to arrive. It's holding boost well and spools really fast.

T4 flange with 1.5" weld els and a 38mm wastegate port.

[George]

Here is the manifold I put together this weekend. I think I want to re-do it in stainless so I can make it look prettier and save some weight. But it's working well. I haven't really beat on the car yet as I'm waiting on my intercooler to arrive. It's holding boost well and spools really fast.

If you re do the manifold, I would attempt closer fitment of your primary piping. Those are pretty large gaps and after continuous heat cycling along with the weight of the turbo, its going to crack. Otherwise, good effort.

[Shadow]

Keep practicing those welds.