Vlad: The Zinno '87 535is

[tig]

Real men don't wear gloves while drilling.

I didn't even realize I still had them on from when I was installing the PS cooling loop earlier. Haha.

[cddallara]

And to think, I 'euroed' my corner lights (turn signals) to single filaments.

[tig]

Wow. I've been fighting with the euro lighting wiring all day. I can't get my headlights to work.

I think the PO did something really weird when he installed the Cibies and upgraded the wiring.

Relevant ETM pages:



Here's what the PO did: He upgraded the wiring for the high-beams only. He tapped off the positive battery terminal to a new set of relays. One 20A fuse and one relay for the insight high-beams, and one for the outside highbeams. He ran four individual red power wires from these relays, along with grounds. He put female spade terminals on the ends of these wires and they were plugged directly into the spades on the backs of the bulbs. The original sockets were left dangling.

The trigger for the relays is spliced inside the fuse box to the white wire going to the fusebox high-beam relay (86).

The low-beams continued to be run using the OEM wiring (but the old sockets were detached).

This photo of the driver's side shows how he had it setup:


What is driving me nuts, and makes no sense is why he bridged the 12V for the inside high-beams to the WT/BL in the original connector. On the RHS it's bridged to the WT/VI. As the ETM shows these (WT/BL & WT/VI) come from 87 of the high-beam relay in the fuse box (via fuses). So, when the high beams are on and the high-beam relay activates there's 12V on both 87 (the output) and 30 (the input). The way this is wired, once the relay is closed it's a closed circuit and it shouldn't make any difference.

After studying the ETM I decided he must have must been nuts. However, I've found that the low-beam relay will NOT trigger unless this is configured this way.

Low-beam relay:

30 - always hot (tested).
86 - input from light switch (tested 12V whenever the switch is on)
85 - input from high-beam relay, supposed to be HOT when high-beams are on (tested 12V whenever the highbeams are on, 0V when the highbeams are off)
87 - output to lights

The relay does NOT click when 85 goes hot. And thus the low-beams do not work.

However, if I remove the relay and hard wire from 30 to 87 they headlights come on.

It is as though the headlight relay is not getting enough current to switch.

I've got it wired the way the PO had it and everything's working, but I'm not happy about it.

I was hoping someone who has done this before might have an idea what's going on.

[tig]

One of the inside light bulb holders was inop. The hot wire (white) had a good connection to the inside of the terminal, but current was not flowing through the copper rivet that connects the inside terminal to the outside. This had me stumped for a while!

I actually have another one of these from my 'new' car so I used that, but I figured I'd try fixing this one with a little solder. I didn't want to get it too hot and melt the plastic, so this is not the best solder job ever, but it's strong and current now flows.



Testing all the lights. Low-beams and Fogs on.


High-beams.


My city-light bulbs are both burned out, so I've ordered some.

Paint booth on thursday!

[cibie]

I found this article by Daniel Stern very informative. Hope it helps! http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech ... elays.html

[cddallara]

Bad relay?

[tig]

Bad relay?

I swapped the low-beam and fog light relays when testing; same behavior. They are both the silver diode based relays (although, according to the ETM they don't need to be).



Here's a diagram I created to illustrate my setup.



Note the orange line. The BOLD orange section is the part I have a question about. If that connection is removed, the low beam relay does not switch when it should. Electrically, at least to me, this makes no sense.

If the bold orange connection IS NOT made:

0) High beam switch is off.
1) High beam relay normally-open contact (87) is open.
2) This circuit goes to 86 on the two PO installed relays (coil input). There will be some resistance to ground due to the coil.
3) The PO installed relays will be open (87).
4) The Low Beam coil output (85) will have a small amount of resistance (due to 4 above) but no current.

If the bold orange connection is made, this changes though:

0) High beam switch is off.
1) High beam relay normally-open contact (87) is open.
2) This circuit goes to 86 on the two PO installed relays (coil input). There will be some resistance to ground due to the coil.
3) The PO installed relays will be open (87).
4) The Low Beam coil output (85) will have MORE resistance (due to 4 above AND the resistance across the high beam bulb).

As far as I can tell, this is the only difference in between these two.

In the case of the original setup, the amount of resistance on the Low Beam coil input (85) when the high beams are off would be that of four light bulbs. With the setup my PO put in, that resistance is just the new relay coils.

Now that I've diagramed this and I think I understand it I'm ok with leaving it the way it is (with the bold orange connection in place). But I wish it didn't seem so sketchy to me.

[tig]

Le rear window rust bubble is fixed.



Blocking and sanding of rear is done.



New plan is for me to drop the car off at Ken's shop on Monday night. Done by next Thursday.

[tschultz]

Not sure I can answer your question about that jumper, but doesn't it make sense to remove the PO's relays so you don't have 2 extra relays to troubleshoot the next time you have headlight issues? If I see it correctly, you have now 2 or 3 relays controlling your high beams instead of just the one...

Either way, progress is looking great!

[unt0uchable]

Nice progress! What program did you use to illustrate you're electrical diagram?

Cannot wait for the photos of this all assembled and beautiful!

[tig]

Nice progress! What program did you use to illustrate your electrical diagram?

Visio.

Cannot wait for the photos of this all assembled and beautiful!

me too!!!!

[tig]

I'm gonna miss coming home from work and finding shit got done.







Forgot Monday is my wedding anniversary. So no dropping car off as planned. Hope this doesn't eff up Ken's plans.

[tig]

First time Vlad's run since early May.



I totally forgot to put ATF in the PS system and couldn't figure out what the whine was when I started it up. Hopefully I didn't ruin my PS pump letting it run dry for a few minutes like that. I've got a spare, but jeez.

Hood is off so that a) I can put new insulation and the new washer bits on it, and b) so ken can paint the cowl just below the windshield more easily. We decided that the slight difference paint color would be most noticeable there. It's got some chips anyway.

I'm going to risk driving it to Ken's on Tuesday morning without a hood or front turn-signals. Cops will understand, right?

[tig]

Wow. I've been fighting with the euro lighting wiring all day. I can't get my headlights to work.

I think the PO did something really weird when he installed the Cibies and upgraded the wiring.

Relevant ETM pages:



Here's what the PO did: He upgraded the wiring for the high-beams only. He tapped off the positive battery terminal to a new set of relays. One 20A fuse and one relay for the insight high-beams, and one for the outside highbeams. He ran four individual red power wires from these relays, along with grounds. He put female spade terminals on the ends of these wires and they were plugged directly into the spades on the backs of the bulbs. The original sockets were left dangling.

The trigger for the relays is spliced inside the fuse box to the white wire going to the fusebox high-beam relay (86).

The low-beams continued to be run using the OEM wiring (but the old sockets were detached).

This photo of the driver's side shows how he had it setup:


What is driving me nuts, and makes no sense is why he bridged the 12V for the inside high-beams to the WT/BL in the original connector. On the RHS it's bridged to the WT/VI. As the ETM shows these (WT/BL & WT/VI) come from 87 of the high-beam relay in the fuse box (via fuses). So, when the high beams are on and the high-beam relay activates there's 12V on both 87 (the output) and 30 (the input). The way this is wired, once the relay is closed it's a closed circuit and it shouldn't make any difference.

After studying the ETM I decided he must have must been nuts. However, I've found that the low-beam relay will NOT trigger unless this is configured this way.

Low-beam relay:

30 - always hot (tested).
86 - input from light switch (tested 12V whenever the switch is on)
85 - input from high-beam relay, supposed to be HOT when high-beams are on (tested 12V whenever the highbeams are on, 0V when the highbeams are off)
87 - output to lights

The relay does NOT click when 85 goes hot. And thus the low-beams do not work.

However, if I remove the relay and hard wire from 30 to 87 they headlights come on.

It is as though the headlight relay is not getting enough current to switch.

I've got it wired the way the PO had it and everything's working, but I'm not happy about it.

I was hoping someone who has done this before might have an idea what's going on.

I finally figured this all out, with the help of my genius son who took electrical engineering 101 this year :-).

Then I found this, which probably would have helped:

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=99743

I now get it.

[tig]

My father's day present from my wife was (besides the trip to the LeMay Automobile Museum) was a guilt-free day of cleaning the garage. All the body work resulted in dust everywhere. Now it's back to normal.

[Jelmer538i]

Do you live near Lake Washington?

[tig]

Do you live near Lake Washington?

Yes, but even closer to Lake Sammamish.

[Jelmer538i]

Ok, Its beatifull overthere. Been there in 2006, I have family in Monroe and Carnation.

[tig]

Ok, Its beatifull overthere. Been there in 2006, I have family in Monroe and Carnation.

Next time you visit, please come by and have a beer with me!

[Jelmer538i]

I will!

[bkbimmer]

It looks like you will be needing an addition to your shop before kindel restorations opens for business.

[Matthias]

Hats off to you! Wish I had your garage and your cars! Thanks for posting the details!

[tig]

Hats off to you! Wish I had your garage and your cars! Thanks for posting the details!

Thanks.

Dropped the car off at Ken's place this morning. He's promising Saturday.

[Hffvdbl]

I'm excited to see it!

[bkbimmer]

Hats off to you! Wish I had your garage and your cars! Thanks for posting the details!

Thanks.

Dropped the car off at Ken's place this morning. He's promising Saturday.

Yeah, but which Saturday? This is a body/paint shop after all!

[leadphut]

while we're waiting, here's a video of a young cek jacking up his car - when he had hair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdssOkU_GkU

[tig]

while we're waiting, here's a video of a young cek jacking up his car - when he had hair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdssOkU_GkU

Nope, not me. I never had abs like that.

[tig]

Got this sexted to me today:

[1st 5er]

We need a "LIKE" button badly.

[tig]

This morning I cleaned and painted the rear shelf.


The graphite SEM Color Coat is def darker than the anthracite carpet, but that's ok for this application because the rear shelf is hard to see, especially with tinted rear windows. And it's far, far, better than the faded blue it had become.


Tonight, I finished the hood. I put on new insulation (facing, cowl, and front strip) and all new washer plumbing. Emblem will go on after final polishing.