High power M30 questions

[EventuallyAyrton]

Hey guys, I'm a "long time" member here but I've been absent for a while. I've since moved to college where I am getting my bachelors in Automotive Technology. I'm liking it very much. Now, down to business. I have bought a 1988 Volvo 245 (240 wagon sounds way cooler) and I plan to build it into a streetable drift car. I have been trying to decide what engine I want to use that will make good power reliably. I don't want to just use an LS motor because when was the last time you saw an LS swap? Oh right, 5 minutes ago. Frankly, I'm tired of V8's. I was toying with the idea of using a VW 1.8T engine because they are incredibly strong and can make 500-600whp reliably (with big turbo supporting modifications, of course) and still be streetable. That would be cool but a really high strung, small capacity 4 cylinder just doesn't really fit this build. Then I thought about using a turbo M30. They aren't terribly expensive (a good condition B35 can be had for less than $1000), they're reliable as the wheel, and they're engines that I know. What I don't know are the limitations of the block and head. Will they be able to take 600whp and 600-700wtq? I plan to use an MLS gasket and ARP headstuds. Of course, I know that there will be major work to be done on the fuel system (e85 baby!) and bottom end, as well as the intake tract exhaust, and about a million other things that I haven't addressed yet. I plan to run the engine with either Megasquirt or Haltech. Money isn't really an issue as I plan to have this Volvo for the rest of my life, but being in college I can't spend $20K building an engine. I will be fabricating as many of my own parts as possible. I have done my fair share of research and don't expect spoonfed answers, I'm not a child and I have read the FAQ's and used the search bar as much as I could but nothing addressed the power levels that I am looking to achieve.

TL;DR Will a stock B35 engine block and head be able to handle around 600whp/600-700wtq?

Thanks for your help.

[Insaini]

Well, not the same engine, but, this guy is getting 900hp+ and 800tq+ from an M20. So, can't see why an M30 couldn't do the same, or better...

http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/05/bar ... o-bmw-e30/

[EventuallyAyrton]

That actually helps alot. Thanks! I would be interested to know how "fully useable on the road" it actually is lol

[Kyle in NO]

"Long time"?

Exactly 1 year?

LOL

600 hp? Block, yes. Everything else? No. Will it last 100k miles? No. Will it last 100 miles? Probably.

What components do you intend to use to achieve this goal? Stock head likely won't flow the sort of volume needed. Check out this thread for an example of what it takes to get anywhere near what you're wanting to do:

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=39675

[EventuallyAyrton]

I guess I've been lurking around longer than I've been a member haha

Forged pistons and H beam rods, I still have to figure out compression ratios but I'll be taking with my engines professor when I return to school (on break now). Not 100% sure about the crank yet. MLS gasket and ARP studs. Not 100% sure about the cam yet, I want to look more into FI specific grinds, I suspect that I'll end up using a Schrick, that seems to be one of the most reputable sources for high-performance cams. IE dual valve springs, I would do my own port and polishing work on the head. I was thinking about a GT35R turbo , those turbos have been used in 1000+ hp Evo's. It would spool with either a custom tubular header or a TCD manifold although I'm leaning more towards the custom tubular header and exit out of a 3.5" stainless system. Cooling would be taken care of with a custom water to air intercooler system that would eliminate the need to flip the throttle body opening in the intake manifold because I could position it almost "inline" with the intake system. Fueling would include dual in-tank Bosch 044 pumps pushing through a flex fuel sensor up to Bosch EV14 1000cc injectors. Ignition would be controlled by 6 ls ignition coils. I still have to decide whether I want to use Megasquirt or Haltech to control all of the goodness but I will in the future. Am I missing anything? Probably, this is just a basic list

[Kyle in NO]

The parts you listed are not going to get you there. Maybe 400-450. Again, read the thread I linked to.

[Insaini]

This guy is also pushing big numbers from an M30. He has listed all the parts used for his build
http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=130526

[Insaini]

BTW, if this is going to be a drift car, do you need that much power? Big power would mean a big turbo, with the potential of lag, would that not be an issue in a drift car?

[EventuallyAyrton]

The parts you listed are not going to get you there. Maybe 400-450. Again, read the thread I linked to.

I did, all 22 pages of it. So, what you're telling me is that I could make 550whp with stock crank, rods, and pistons reliably for 6+ years? Goody goody! In all seriousness though, I think that thread proves that the M30 can make ridikulous power fairly reliably, I would use forged internals to just prolong that reliability even more.

BTW, if this is going to be a drift car, do you need that much power? Big power would mean a big turbo, with the potential of lag, would that not be an issue in a drift car?

It could, in the "Noob to M30s" thread, it shows that with a good tune and e85, it'll spool around 3500rpm which would be fine I think but I'm still exploring options and I may have to lower my whp expectations in order to get a decent, lower powerband. We shall see.

[George]

This thread seems like a lot of day dreaming...but I guess everyone's project starts somewhere.

[EventuallyAyrton]

This thread seems like a lot of day dreaming...but I guess everyone's project starts somewhere.

That's absolutely what it is!

All things being equal, and nothing wrong with reaching for the stars,... what's your budget, seems like you should bring your economics professor into this as well, and your financial adviser, that kind of HP costs $$$

Like I said earlier, money is really an issue but I can't spend $20k building an engine

[LeiseyJr]

Usually when you mess with a BMW bottom end you have issues, just boost it and do some head work. It will be more than enough for the car and a very exciting car to drive.

[Shadow]

What are you talking about usually how?

[Insaini]

Well, this is my 2 cent worth.

Nothing wrong with dreaming up ideas on a build. I'm pretty sure we have all been there and done that, including myself.

You need to decide what you really want to do with this car. You mention street driven, drift and 600hp. I think you need to cancel out one of those options for now, I'm thinking 600hp. Can you drift, or do you want to learn? I literally spent 1 minute in a drift forum, and the consensus is, you don't need big power when learning to drift. Actually, you first learn to drift on average powered cars, and work your way up as you get better. Drifting isn't about burning the tyres from under the car, its about knowing how to control the car into and out of a drift, Its about control, not boat loads of power to spin the wheels out. If you check out a drift forum, you'll find they mention suspension, sway bars, weight saving and tyre setup is most important.

Keep the build reasonable, learn how to drift. You will break stuff along the way, if you kept your build affordable, the fix won't be too expensive. Once you get better at it, start throwing more parts at the car and start chasing HP.

[Pauly Walnuts]

You can spend $20k on an M30 and have about the same HP/TQ and none of the reliability of a $1000 M62 (assuming the timing guides don't explode).

Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be. You can fit a pineapple up your ass but it probably isn't a good idea.

[EventuallyAyrton]

You can fit a pineapple up your ass but it probably isn't a good idea.

This made me laugh so hard, ramen noodles came out of my nose. I'm not eating ramen noodles.

[George]

You can spend $20k on an M30 and have about the same HP/TQ and none of the reliability of a $1000 M62 (assuming the timing guides don't explode).

Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should be. You can fit a pineapple up your ass but it probably isn't a good idea.

Ouch.

[Raj]

You can get well above m62 or even s62 power levels with a lot less than $20k. I wouldnt touch the bottom end with the availability of used engines out there. Just strap a properly managed fuel/turbo setup to a stock block, redo the heads if you feel, and have fun! For drifting, might want to look into the oil starvation/head pooling issues on long left turns at high rpm. Haven't come across any baffled oil pans for these as of yet...