Hey guys, I am looking to build a spare engine I am working on for a class of mine with the aim to turbocharge it. Currently I am working on the valve train and I have only bought some valve-train parts. (VAC Motorsport 8mm valves, retainers, guides, and their rocker arm retainers, since they looked like a solid substitute).
I would like to build the engine up a bit with hopefully a little power increase, as I am not able to afford the turbo setups quite yet. I was looking at Miller Performance forged pistons, and getting some Arrow Point S38 144mm rods. The other option would be VAC Motorsport's kit, but it does not retain the ~8:1 compression, and instead bumps it to 8.5, I dont know how necessary it is for these engines to keep the .5 difference on the lower end. I am not looking for huge numbers, but would like to be able to put a bunch of power to the wheels without limiting myself in the future if I want to upgrade to more boost later. I am open to suggestions
Thanks for any input you guys have
It's a question of budget, time and persistence. Are you willing to put in the time gleaning knowledge from books, experts online and at local shops to identify the best parts for your build? Are you going to stick with the build and focus on it almost entirely (or keep buying 'great deal' orphan cars)? Do you have an adequate budget to keep the build rolling month after month with fresh NEW parts rather than dirty, worn parts from salvage yards?
True you're not going to get 'huge' power from the valve train but it will give you peace of mind that your motor will be able to handle the added pressure of high RPM's, loads and boost. I'd urge that you not waste you time with poor quality parts. Do your homework and get the good stuff. Also, find people with knowledge who can mentor and assist throughout the build with their own lessons learned. I'm midway through a build of my own. Take a look at what I've done thus far and if you have any questions let me know. Link to the build thread is below in my sig.
I think you should set a goal for the car, and what you really want as far an output. Unless you are going to have a higher rev limit (which to me isn't that great since it's a 2valve single cam). Then there is really no reason to upgrade the head at all. Maybe some slight porting to clean things up wouldn't hurt. I think replacing hte valve springs would be good security if you are rebuilding the head. Of course new seals and what not as well. However all the other parts are a waste IMO (on a stock rev limit turbo motor). If you were to upgrade the camshaft it may be worth it as well. On a budget I wouldn't upgrade the head unless you upgarde the cam, then port and then your into a whole new league of cost. Your money could be better spent elsewhere. On a lower budget build I think optimizing your money is going to be the best thing you can do. Some people on here spend way too much money on little bs and they waste there money upgrading things that would never of been an issue.
Kyle in NO wrote:Holy Unnecessary Spending Batman!
Thanks for the useless one liner, again. Is that all you're good for or do you actually have anything constructive to contribute?
Shouldn't you be busy throwing tacky eBay parts at your car?
Since, according to yourself "eBay has exploded in my car", there isn't anything 'tacky' remaining to add. Supposedly you are the expert in what is tacky. Your pointless comments come across as bitter and inane.
I agree that one should start with goals given a hard look at the variables thus far mentioned: purpose of the build, use of the vehicle, budget, technical skill in yourself and those around you and timeline. Some have experienced noteworthy power output using used and inexpensive parts. Reliability may be questionable in these instances and esthetics completely lacking but if your goal is a low budget sleeper then you can take that route. I have chosen a different route because my goals and resources differ from those of other persuasions.
Murfinator wrote:Some have experienced noteworthy power output using used and inexpensive parts. Reliability may be questionable in these instances and esthetics completely lacking.
Murfinator wrote:Some have experienced noteworthy power output using used and inexpensive parts. Reliability may be questionable in these instances and esthetics completely lacking.
Well, you're half right.
Care to elaborate or are you just another card-carrying member of the one liner club?
From what I've read on this board over the past several years is that when people go cheap and engine bays are suffering from grease/dirt bombs reliability suffers. Do you feel that is not true?
I'm not as good with the one liners. I only get one every once in a while.
Reliability has nothing to do with how much money you spend. Its a matter of putting things together correctly and not running more boost than the motor can handle. Theres nothing wrong with factory BMW parts either. They did a very good job when putting these motors together at the factory in terms of component quality and machine work. You're probably better off with a good stock motor than a "rebuilt" motor in a lot of cases. Aftermarket parts considered upgrades may be even lower quality than the original parts you're replacing. There are things that need to be upgraded, clutches, head bolts and the ignition system for example, but the majority of your engine is ready for boost as is provided its in good condition.
Its silly to spend tons of money on a build and then run less boost than you could have on a stock engine.
turbodan wrote:I'm not as good with the one liners. I only get one every once in a while.
Reliability has nothing to do with how much money you spend. Its a matter of putting things together correctly and not running more boost than the motor can handle. Theres nothing wrong with factory BMW parts either. They did a very good job when putting these motors together at the factory in terms of component quality and machine work. You're probably better off with a good stock motor than a "rebuilt" motor in a lot of cases. Aftermarket parts considered upgrades may be even lower quality than the original parts you're replacing. There are things that need to be upgraded, clutches, head bolts and the ignition system for example, but the majority of your engine is ready for boost as is provided its in good condition.
Its silly to spend tons of money on a build and then run less boost than you could have on a stock engine.
So I probably have to put some more info in, ill start responding in order of what I have seen on questions.
-Currently I am working on building the engine myself as a project for my school's engine machining and repair program. As this is so, I do not have as much income as I would like coming into the project, which is why I brought up the budget side of things. I want to do things properly, even if its a little expensive. Although properly done + cheap would be wonderful :P
-"Huge power" for me is anything above 400WHP and around that in torque. I know that some people have gotten these engines fairly reliable at above that, but that scares me, although I figure if the engine is build to handle over 400WHP that increases the reliability, no?
-Realistically I know its a lot of money to dump on the valve-train, but the engine I am working on, while some parts I replaced are in a condition I would want to be replacing when the engine gets boost, the rocker retainer springs are messed up and not at all consistent in their tension, the valve guides are not in good condition, and the valves are kinda bleh. The prices I found for brand new stock ones added up to similar costs for the upgrade of those, although I probably wasn't finding the lowest prices for them.
Its a little over-played naivety but I would like to stay away from used parts if possible, because while I can work on them to try to fix I dont want to be buying a set of used parts only to find they are damaged and engine dies on me after I put a bunch of money into it.
I have a huge amount of general knowledge to work with at my fingertips because of my school, but most people haven't boosted a European engine, so its somewhat of a "Trusted source A says ______ for the engine they worked on, how would that pertain to my engine," and I have looked into some other builds that people have done, and even so I am just trying to work out if people who have the experience have any input for the bottom end that I would be missing just transferring generic theory over to the engine, I have gotten some opinions on the top end already.
Are there brands for internal engine parts to avoid that people know of? I have heard good things about Miller, VAC, and Turbocharging Dynamics; and other than them have no idea about brands such as Arrow Point although if VAC carries them they cant be that bad can they? Are there any other companies you guys would recommend taking a look into?
Tuning will come later, I am led to believe that is a huge bag of worms, and from what I have seen on the forums is a major thorn in boosters' sides
you don't say which motor
I've posted before b34 rockers are weak
I've snapped a couple,I recommend Ireland engineering heavy rockers,& stiffer valve springs for safer revving
good luck
marc
marc79euro645 wrote:you don't say which motor
I've posted before b34 rockers are weak
I've snapped a couple,I recommend Ireland engineering heavy rockers,& stiffer valve springs for safer revving
good luck
marc
I have an M30B34, so ill take a look into the heavy rockers, thanks!
M. Holtmeier wrote:This boosted m30b34 is all stock original parts except for new piston rings, head studs, camshaft, and gaskets.
Hot car! How much are you putting to the wheels, do you know?
And assuming that the stock bottom-end parts are in OK shape I might replace the connecting rods only, only because im pretty sure the rods have 270k on them and I dunno how well the engine was maintained (for an engine that was rebuild ~30k ago there are certainly some things that the shop that did the work did not do well, or just wore out REALLY fast).
Havokin wrote:
And assuming that the stock bottom-end parts are in OK shape I might replace the connecting rods only, only because im pretty sure the rods have 270k on them and I dunno how well the engine was maintained (for an engine that was rebuild ~30k ago there are certainly some things that the shop that did the work did not do well, or just wore out REALLY fast).
This was a 130k or so engine that was pulled and set aside. The pistons and cylinders had some rust forming and I went back and forth as to wether the engine was usable or not. In the end, cylinder leakdown at 600 miles was less than 3%(most barely moving the gauge). The only cylinder prep was a flex hone.
Keeping the rebuild cost down, I was able to upgrade the cam and turbo. My power goals are 450/450+ at the wheels. I'm still working on the car; the intercooler system was inefficient, the fuel system had some problems, etc. The car is feeling really strong, though I haven't had time to get on a dyno. The stock engine setup with a 60mm turbo made 360/410 at the wheels at 1 bar.
Scott, our dealership sells Jaguar and Land Rover but I only work on the BMW side.
