My turbo project.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Dec 07, 2011 5:39 AM

That tube on the m20 is a vent for blow-by gasses.
It runs from the block to the head. The manifold is just used
as a flange so it can connect to the head.

M30s have huge oil drains and a huge area for crank ventilation.

If you can see vapor pouring out at idle it needs some new rings.

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Dec 07, 2011 6:18 AM

Shadow wrote:That tube on the m20 is a vent for blow-by gasses.
It runs from the block to the head. The manifold is just used
as a flange so it can connect to the head.

M30s have huge oil drains and a huge area for crank ventilation.

If you can see vapor pouring out at idle it needs some new rings.

No vapors at idle but after a good run there is oil seeping out of the aux air valve bolts on the valve cover. The valve cover is filling with oil.
This is also an issue on some small block Fords
Paul Burke has explained this issue. We installed restrictors on E12 turbo and it worked perfectly.

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Dec 07, 2011 7:49 AM

turbodan wrote:How do you know you're not blowing oil because of worn rings? Thats generally what excessive oil loss through the breather means, especially on the street. If you're getting more than vapors theres a problem in the bottom end. BTDT. Assuming this is due to "overoiling" seems to be simplistic and likely incorrect. You're not giving BMW much credit, and they don't (or didn't) fuck around when it comes to building a motor.

But hey, its your motor. Let me know how the top end holds up.

Its not driving normal, its most of these cars people don't push them hard enough grip wise. My engine is pretty healthy for its mileage. Driving normal its perfect, it's when you push it in the turns. It's like the gforces are great enough to not allow the oil in the head to drain back properly. If I drive normal there is no problem, I just meant I can get enough grip on the street to have it filling up the valve cover. I'm suprised you are first hearing of this now, i've seen multiple builds with this. Maybe Paul Burke will chime in.

Your right they don't mess around, and i'm not saying this is a fault in design per say. It's just i'm taking an n/a engine made for lugging around. Then beating the piss out of it on hard turns with a turbo attached. That wasn't in the design.

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Dec 07, 2011 7:24 PM

I'd much rather implement an effective oil recovery system than restrict oil flow. Thats my .02. The oiling system is already barely sufficient for the top end as is. Restricting oil flow may solve one problem but you dont want to trade off engine life or reliability in doing so.

Bill in MN · Post by **Bill in MN** » Dec 07, 2011 8:17 PM

I did not have restrictors.

My motor spends the majority of its time over 4k and there is evidence of oil starvation in some of the rod bearings. I run a crank scraper and additional baffles so 2 guesses as to where the oil is.

Ditto on the fact that these motors were not designed to run lots of R's on a consistant basis.

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Dec 07, 2011 8:24 PM

Bill in MN wrote:I did not have restrictors.

My motor spends the majority of its time over 4k and there is evidence of oil starvation in some of the rod bearings. I run a crank scraper and additional baffles so 2 guesses as to where the oil is.

Ditto on the fact that these motors were not designed to run lots of R's on a consistant basis.

This is why I went to the restrictor, to allow more oil at the rod bearings, and the turbo. The head seems to be over-oiled.

paul burke · Post by **paul burke** » Dec 07, 2011 8:30 PM

Just a note that may change some of the thinking here.

S38 and S14 engines have always used factory installed deck restrictors and they are much smaller than what we are using in the m30s.

All four cylinder (M10) road race engines leave my shop with a .070

restrictor in place.

Paul

Post by **mooseheadm5** » Dec 07, 2011 9:21 PM

paul burke wrote:Just a note that may change some of the thinking here.

S38 and S14 engines have always used factory installed deck restrictors and they are much smaller than what we are using in the m30s.

All four cylinder (M10) road race engines leave my shop with a .070 restrictor in place.

Paul

Do you use better rockers, though?

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Dec 08, 2011 4:00 AM

paul burke wrote:Just a note that may change some of the thinking here.

S38 and S14 engines have always used factory installed deck restrictors and they are much smaller than what we are using in the m30s.

All four cylinder (M10) road race engines leave my shop with a .070 restrictor in place.

Paul

Hello Paul.
Where exactly is this restrictor and what size do you recommend for the m30?

Is this something everyone should do just like clamping the
cam oiler bar?

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Dec 08, 2011 6:45 AM

Shadow wrote:
paul burke wrote:Just a note that may change some of the thinking here.

S38 and S14 engines have always used factory installed deck restrictors and they are much smaller than what we are using in the m30s.

All four cylinder (M10) road race engines leave my shop with a .070 restrictor in place.

Paul
Hello Paul.
Where exactly is this restrictor and what size do you recommend for the m30?

Is this something everyone should do just like clamping the
cam oiler bar?

There are 2 oil galleys in the block next to head bolts. The head gasket has egg shaped copper rings around the galley and the bolt hole.
I think 5/16 threaded brass plug with .110 hole it is what the machine shop used. Same shop is doing Scott's engine

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Dec 08, 2011 6:48 AM

turbodan wrote:I wouldn't go there unless it was certainly necessary. The M30 isn't a motor I'd run around a track at redline any period of time anyway. Its much more efficient at making midrange power.

Restrictors are effective all the time, so you're getting less oil at idle and everywhere else too. For these motors that presents a problem. The oil spray bar requires a certain volume of oil to function at all. I'd explore improving oil drainage, installing baffling or even a catch can or oil recovery system before I restricted oil supply to the head. That should be a last resort if engine life is going to be a concern.

At idle the oil flow from the pump is so low, it doesn't even "see" the restriction. Idle is where M30 cams need help.

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Dec 08, 2011 7:33 AM

Shadow wrote:
paul burke wrote:Just a note that may change some of the thinking here.

S38 and S14 engines have always used factory installed deck restrictors and they are much smaller than what we are using in the m30s.

All four cylinder (M10) road race engines leave my shop with a .070 restrictor in place.

Paul
Hello Paul.
Where exactly is this restrictor and what size do you recommend for the m30?

Is this something everyone should do just like clamping the
cam oiler bar?

Clamping the oil bar is too late in the system to have a real affect.

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Dec 09, 2011 7:16 AM

Scottinva wrote:
Clamping the oil bar is too late in the system to have a real affect.

I think it does help keep #1 cam lobe better lubed at low rpm

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Dec 11, 2011 9:46 AM

Started bolting on MISC things, and making sure I still had all the hardware I needed. I ordered all the bearings and seals and a huge amount of parts should be here around wednesday, than I can actually start putting in some of the major parts.

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Dec 11, 2011 11:42 AM

Scottinva wrote:

Started bolting on MISC things, and making sure I still had all the hardware I needed. I ordered all the bearings and seals and a huge amount of parts should be here around wednesday, than I can actually start putting in some of the major parts.

I have a set of standard size bearing and gasket set

tacomagabe · Post by **tacomagabe** » Dec 11, 2011 12:08 PM

Do you have a picture of the restrictors you could post while you have the head off? This is the first I've heard of this too. Makes sense too me though.

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Dec 12, 2011 1:52 PM

tacomagabe wrote:Do you have a picture of the restrictors you could post while you have the head off? This is the first I've heard of this too. Makes sense too me though.

In the first photo you can see the oil restrictor. In the second photo is part of the justification for the restrictor: blueprinted oil pump with silicon bronze pressure relief valve bushing and smaller E32 sprocket. This pump would only exacerbate the over-oiling of the head without restrictors in place. Finally, when a professional with 30+ years building these motors tells me I need to install restrictors I take heed and do as instructed.

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Dec 13, 2011 6:59 AM

Murfinator wrote: This pump would only exacerbate the over-oiling of the head without restrictors in place. Finally, when a professional with 30+ years building these motors tells me I need to install restrictors I take heed and do as instructed.

lest you do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbqP6TgK8Eo

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Dec 27, 2011 3:22 PM

Brought the head to work and cleaned it, will take it apart and do a valve job and replace all the seals and what not while i'm in there. I plan to replace the valve springs for job security as well.

I acid dipped the oil pump, and went through that and got it all bolted on. I am going to grab some chain from work to make a new oil pump chain and shim the pump to change the chain tension if needed. I went through the coolant pump and checked everything and just through that on as well. I need to figure out where i'm going to tap the oil filter housing for turbo feed, and figure out how the engine mounts are different (came from 7 series.)

altus22 · Post by **altus22** » Dec 27, 2011 5:08 PM

Why don't you use a stock chain? You're going to replace the oil pump gears with new ones too, right? If you don't, you'll wear your new chain more quickly.

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Dec 27, 2011 5:43 PM

I can make it for free, and no the sprockets aren't worn. I don't feel like paying 40 dollars for oem chain. This is a budget build. Buying all new sprockets would be very pricey and would be a waste of money IMO unless your sprockets were worn out. Just the cam sprocket is over 50 bucks.

FirstFives Dictator · Post by **FirstFives Dictator** » Dec 27, 2011 8:34 PM

Scottinva wrote:I can make it for free, and no the sprockets aren't worn. I don't feel like paying 40 dollars for oem chain. This is a budget build. Buying all new sprockets would be very pricey and would be a waste of money IMO unless your sprockets were worn out. Just the cam sprocket is over 50 bucks.

wkohler · Post by **wkohler** » Dec 27, 2011 8:50 PM

HOLY CRAP?! $50? WOW. Better not buy that new.

turbodan · Post by **turbodan** » Dec 27, 2011 9:46 PM

When it comes to the handful of parts that will cause catastrophic damage if they fail you can't justify the expense?

What? And people think I'm a hack.

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Dec 28, 2011 12:35 AM

wkohler wrote:HOLY CRAP?! $50? WOW. Better not buy that new.

it's 120. I'm just trying to save money, but I guess this isn't the place place to save some.

wkohler · Post by **wkohler** » Dec 28, 2011 12:38 AM

Scottinva wrote:
wkohler wrote:HOLY CRAP?! $50? WOW. Better not buy that new.
it's 120. Say what you guys want. If it's not worn out i'm not replacing it. I'm putting on new chains and and guide rails. What part of an engine if it fails wouldn't cause catastrophic damage?

It's less than a stock headgasket kit...

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Dec 28, 2011 12:52 AM

I guess it would be a good idea to replace the sprockets since I am replacing the chain. I will replace them, it does make since to do it now.

Murfinator · Post by **Murfinator** » Dec 28, 2011 1:22 AM

I have an extra new IWIS timing chain I'll sell for $25 which is $10 less than retail. Hate to see you put the engine back together with old, worn parts. Do it right the first time. Please.

Scottinva · Post by **Scottinva** » Dec 28, 2011 7:31 AM

No worries new parts are already on the way. Thanks though. I plan to do a 3 angle type job on the valves, talking to some of the machinists it doesn't seem like porting is really going to be worth my while. I did the intake manifold and gasket matched it and what not. However I dont want to dive into the head and start sacrificing low end. It appears BMW did a superb job anyway.Also no more drunk posting for me.

altus22 · Post by **altus22** » Dec 28, 2011 8:46 AM

I'm glad you bought new. The 4 parts that you weren't going to buy new came up at $100 on BavAuto.

You're still going to grind your valves at least, right?

MyE28.com DEV

MyE28.com DEV

My turbo project.